Comments on: Tithes & Offerings http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/ Boldly proclaiming GRACE to the nations!!! Wed, 09 Jun 2010 20:08:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Bertie http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1349 Bertie Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:03:06 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1349 All you say is true an I am the biggest preacher of this. To the shame of many grace believers I must say that they are not giving as much as when they were under the law. In some stats I did I found that more than 70% of all grace believers don't give at all and have stoped all giving. The rest of the people have unstable giving. Most in not all churches that go to grace in finances struggle tremendously after going to the freedom message. I think this is why many pastors will continue to preach the law All you say is true an I am the biggest preacher of this. To the shame of many grace believers I must say that they are not giving as much as when they were under the law. In some stats I did I found that more than 70% of all grace believers don’t give at all and have stoped all giving. The rest of the people have unstable giving. Most in not all churches that go to grace in finances struggle tremendously after going to the freedom message. I think this is why many pastors will continue to preach the law

]]> By: Tashie http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1348 Tashie Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:05:33 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1348 Hi - I also read somewhere recently that at that time in the OT there was no separation of religion and state like there is now, so the "tithe" was usually given to the government (King) in order to help run the state. These days we give tax to our govt for this. To separate out the tithe as something we *must* give the church is actually not in line with Biblical history. Hi – I also read somewhere recently that at that time in the OT there was no separation of religion and state like there is now, so the “tithe” was usually given to the government (King) in order to help run the state.
These days we give tax to our govt for this. To separate out the tithe as something we *must* give the church is actually not in line with Biblical history.

]]> By: Bertie Brits http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1347 Bertie Brits Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:45:53 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1347 Blake I agree with you. The tithe was even a Babylonian tradition where you had to give 10% to the King. By doing that Abraham was saying I accept Melchisedek as my king. It is like we are saying with our mouths JESUS IS MY LORD. The tithing Abram did is fulfilled in you accepting Jesus. The tithe in Mal. 3:9-10 is fulfilled on the cross. Read this http://www.facebook.com//profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=243059333802&id=32802674#/bertie.brits?ref=profile Blake I agree with you. The tithe was even a Babylonian tradition where you had to give 10% to the King. By doing that Abraham was saying I accept Melchisedek as my king. It is like we are saying with our mouths JESUS IS MY LORD. The tithing Abram did is fulfilled in you accepting Jesus. The tithe in Mal. 3:9-10 is fulfilled on the cross.

Read this

http://www.facebook.com//profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=243059333802&id=32802674#/bertie.brits?ref=profile

]]> By: Richard http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1268 Richard Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:12:09 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1268 I think the whole issue of giving is burnt out because of the way it has been presented under manipulation in the past. In short, for the years I sat under law based everything, even breathing,I never saw a return on my giving because it was fear based giving on my end. As I have become saturated with the grace of God which is the gospel of God concerning His Son Christ Jesus, my entire motive has changed in giving. Grace based giving has caused me to give more cheerfully and frequently than the manipulative pushed 'tithing' ever did. The whole issue of giving (I spent alomost 2 years studying offerings & tithes & sowing)is that the mere ever increasing revelation of the love of God to me in Christ Jesus who forever settled our sin debt produces a love/response back to the One who paid it all. Call it whatever you want, tithing, sowing, giving or offerings, I want to because I love Him back with the revelation of His love for me. Im still baffled at how God cares for the birds who dont 'give' & yet loves me more than the birds. Simply put, Im growing in God being 'in love with me' because God is love, not because I am lovely. Love you all! I think the whole issue of giving is burnt out because of the way it has been presented under manipulation in the past. In short, for the years I sat under law based everything, even breathing,I never saw a return on my giving because it was fear based giving on my end. As I have become saturated with the grace of God which is the gospel of God concerning His Son Christ Jesus, my entire motive has changed in giving. Grace based giving has caused me to give more cheerfully and frequently than the manipulative pushed ‘tithing’ ever did. The whole issue of giving (I spent alomost 2 years studying offerings & tithes & sowing)is that the mere ever increasing revelation of the love of God to me in Christ Jesus who forever settled our sin debt produces a love/response back to the One who paid it all. Call it whatever you want, tithing, sowing, giving or offerings, I want to because I love Him back with the revelation of His love for me. Im still baffled at how God cares for the birds who dont ‘give’ & yet loves me more than the birds. Simply put, Im growing in God being ‘in love with me’ because God is love, not because I am lovely. Love you all!

]]> By: Blake http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1255 Blake Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:49:37 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1255 About Abram and tithes. Abram had just given 4 kings a good hiding and was returning with the spoils of war. Not with the first fruits of his labour. He wasnt bring a 10th of his flocks etc. He was carrying home a war chest of four kings worth of goods. And he gives Melchizedek a 10th for two reasons. To understand this you need some understanding of history, biblical and secular. 1) A tenth was a kings share (1 Samuel 8 verse 15 and 17) of the spoils of war, of your flocks, your crops etc. So while Abram did not live in Salem, by offering Melchizedek a 10th he was alining himself with the King of peace and righteousness and showing his submission to the king. In other words to Christ ( See Cornels interpretation of the bread and wine.) 2) Sodom and the king there of are a shadow or a type of satan. He comes out and attempts to seduce Abram with wealth and immediatly Abram tells him where to get lost (Genesis 14 verse 21-24) In other words he was rejecting satan and what he had to offer TOTALY. He wasnt setteling for anything other than what God was willing to bless him with. So for those who are truely interested in grace walking with our precious loving Father go and read the Abram / Melchizedek encounter again. Its not about tithes its about giving.And we give as led by the Holy Spirit, that is part of us listening to the still small voice of God in our hearts and so we give cheerfully for the Lord loves a cheerful giver who is obidient and not sacrificial because our great sacrifice has been made on our behalf. That ties together a whole load of scripture. And actually if anyone preaches a 10% tithe they are not even fulfilling the law because there were 5 major tithes to the law plus others. So should we be teaching tithing, I dont believe so, we should be teaching giving according to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and out of love and gratitude to our Father and Saviour. And just to reiterate what Cornel said your giving is not going to twist Gods arm and make Him love you any more or conversly any less if you dont tithe. So give cheefully as the Spirit tells you to. In Grace and peace Blake About Abram and tithes.
Abram had just given 4 kings a good hiding and was returning with the spoils of war. Not with the first fruits of his labour. He wasnt bring a 10th of his flocks etc. He was carrying home a war chest of four kings worth of goods. And he gives Melchizedek a 10th for two reasons. To understand this you need some understanding of history, biblical and secular.
1) A tenth was a kings share (1 Samuel 8 verse 15 and 17) of the spoils of war, of your flocks, your crops etc. So while Abram did not live in Salem, by offering Melchizedek a 10th he was alining himself with the King of peace and righteousness and showing his submission to the king. In other words to Christ ( See Cornels interpretation of the bread and wine.)
2) Sodom and the king there of are a shadow or a type of satan. He comes out and attempts to seduce Abram with wealth and immediatly Abram tells him where to get lost (Genesis 14 verse 21-24) In other words he was rejecting satan and what he had to offer TOTALY. He wasnt setteling for anything other than what God was willing to bless him with.
So for those who are truely interested in grace walking with our precious loving Father go and read the Abram / Melchizedek encounter again. Its not about tithes its about giving.And we give as led by the Holy Spirit, that is part of us listening to the still small voice of God in our hearts and so we give cheerfully for the Lord loves a cheerful giver who is obidient and not sacrificial because our great sacrifice has been made on our behalf. That ties together a whole load of scripture. And actually if anyone preaches a 10% tithe they are not even fulfilling the law because there were 5 major tithes to the law plus others. So should we be teaching tithing, I dont believe so, we should be teaching giving according to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and out of love and gratitude to our Father and Saviour.
And just to reiterate what Cornel said your giving is not going to twist Gods arm and make Him love you any more or conversly any less if you dont tithe. So give cheefully as the Spirit tells you to.
In Grace and peace
Blake

]]> By: Cornel http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1254 Cornel Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:54:30 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1254 To Joshua, Tithing is not a shadow of Jesus. Melchizedek was the shadow of Jesus. He was the King of Salem (Meaning King of peace and righteousness in Hebrew) He was the one who brought bread & wine to Abraham, signifying the New Covenant, just like Jesus did at the last supper. Abraham was under no obligation to tithe, but he did. Similarly, you are also under no obligation to tithe. Tithing was Abraham's act of worship. Worship means to 'lick the hand' not to be stroked by the hand. Tithing to get anything back defeats the whole point. God doesn't love or bless you based on how much you give, just as He doesn't base His love for us on anything else we can do like read the Bible, pray, fast, sin less etc. He loved us while we were sinners, before we even tried to do anything right. He loved us the most when we were at our worst and gave us the blessing of all blessings, Jesus, when we didn't deserve it whatsoever. In Christ you have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. Faith releases them into your life, not money. In Grace Cornel To Joshua,

Tithing is not a shadow of Jesus. Melchizedek was the shadow of Jesus. He was the King of Salem (Meaning King of peace and righteousness in Hebrew) He was the one who brought bread & wine to Abraham, signifying the New Covenant, just like Jesus did at the last supper. Abraham was under no obligation to tithe, but he did. Similarly, you are also under no obligation to tithe. Tithing was Abraham’s act of worship. Worship means to ‘lick the hand’ not to be stroked by the hand. Tithing to get anything back defeats the whole point.

God doesn’t love or bless you based on how much you give, just as He doesn’t base His love for us on anything else we can do like read the Bible, pray, fast, sin less etc. He loved us while we were sinners, before we even tried to do anything right. He loved us the most when we were at our worst and gave us the blessing of all blessings, Jesus, when we didn’t deserve it whatsoever. In Christ you have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. Faith releases them into your life, not money.

In Grace
Cornel

]]> By: Andre van der Merwe http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1253 Andre van der Merwe Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:58:57 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1253 Hi Joshua Before I answer your question, I would just like to ask: Do you believe in the message of Grace? Do you have a revelation of the fullness of God's Grace yet? Have you read some of the other topics on our site yet? Because if you have, you would know that we did not imply what you wrote in your comment. Holy living, tithing, obedience, etc are all the fruit of the Spirit inside us. We love because He first loved us. It's not by our own effort. In Grace Andre van der Merwe Hi Joshua

Before I answer your question, I would just like to ask: Do you believe in the message of Grace? Do you have a revelation of the fullness of God’s Grace yet? Have you read some of the other topics on our site yet? Because if you have, you would know that we did not imply what you wrote in your comment.

Holy living, tithing, obedience, etc are all the fruit of the Spirit inside us. We love because He first loved us. It’s not by our own effort.

In Grace
Andre van der Merwe

]]> By: Joshua http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1251 Joshua Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:57:35 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1251 Where in the Bible does it say we must tithe? If the tithe is a shadow of Christ and He is the fulfillment of it why do I still need to do it? Are you implying that if I love God I will tithe and therefore if I don't tithe I don't really love God? By the way love your neighbor is actually part of the Law - the Pharisees were asking Him what were the greatest commandments etc and He told them 2 of which love your neighbor as yourself was one of them. Holy living - please elaborate on what you mean Where in the Bible does it say we must tithe? If the tithe is a shadow of Christ and He is the fulfillment of it why do I still need to do it? Are you implying that if I love God I will tithe and therefore if I don’t tithe I don’t really love God? By the way love your neighbor is actually part of the Law – the Pharisees were asking Him what were the greatest commandments etc and He told them 2 of which love your neighbor as yourself was one of them. Holy living – please elaborate on what you mean

]]> By: Admin http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1231 Admin Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:18:50 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1231 Hi Daniel I think you pretty much answered your own question there. Tithing, just like other things such as holy living, loving your neighbour, etc. has been made into a law to put the fear of man and the control of man onto people. Teaching people that they have to tithe because they HAVE TO is law, and not in line with the gospel of the New covenant. On the other hand, teaching people they shouldn't tithe is not Biblical either, because you see the pattern of people tithing right through the Bible, doing this is the same as telling people they shouldn't love their neighbour either. We tithe to partner with God in what He is doing in the earth, to resource our local churches to advance the kingdom of God and to see the lost saved. The most important aspect of tithing (as with everything else we do) is our motive. If you are being made to feel guilty for not giving, you should probably question whether the person telling you to give is basing his doctrine on Bible truth, or on the ministry of death of the Old Covenant Laws (2 Cor 3:7). Yours in Grace Andre van der Merwe Hi Daniel

I think you pretty much answered your own question there. Tithing, just like other things such as holy living, loving your neighbour, etc. has been made into a law to put the fear of man and the control of man onto people. Teaching people that they have to tithe because they HAVE TO is law, and not in line with the gospel of the New covenant.

On the other hand, teaching people they shouldn’t tithe is not Biblical either, because you see the pattern of people tithing right through the Bible, doing this is the same as telling people they shouldn’t love their neighbour either.

We tithe to partner with God in what He is doing in the earth, to resource our local churches to advance the kingdom of God and to see the lost saved.

The most important aspect of tithing (as with everything else we do) is our motive. If you are being made to feel guilty for not giving, you should probably question whether the person telling you to give is basing his doctrine on Bible truth, or on the ministry of death of the Old Covenant Laws (2 Cor 3:7).

Yours in Grace
Andre van der Merwe

]]> By: Daniel F van Wyk http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/tithes-offerings/comment-page-1/#comment-1230 Daniel F van Wyk Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:50:38 +0000 http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/?p=560#comment-1230 I would like to ask the following question on financial giving. We believe that Jesus paid our sins on the cross and that there is no other offering that we can give for the remission of sins; in the same price He became poor so that we can be prosperous. Is it fare for us to preach that grace is unmerited, (you cannot do anything to deserve it), but in the same breath we tell people that God can only bless them if they tithe? Should our giving not be the result of His blessing; the blessing is not the result of our giving! Forgiveness was the result of His death not our repentance. Please come back to me on this matter! Are we making tithing just another law? Pastor Daniel F. van Wyk I would like to ask the following question on financial giving. We believe that Jesus paid our sins on the cross and that there is no other offering that we can give for the remission of sins; in the same price He became poor so that we can be prosperous. Is it fare for us to preach that grace is unmerited, (you cannot do anything to deserve it), but in the same breath we tell people that God can only bless them if they tithe? Should our giving not be the result of His blessing; the blessing is not the result of our giving! Forgiveness was the result of His death not our repentance. Please come back to me on this matter! Are we making tithing just another law?
Pastor Daniel F. van Wyk

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